Question:
Diocletian's persecution of Christians - a grave loss that it wasn't thorough enough to get rid of them all?
MBK
2010-10-28 07:31:56 UTC
Isn't it true that the Roman Republic and Empire, while not a pure model of ethical governance like Ayodhya under King Rama, was more ethical when Jupiter was top god than after the Christians took over? And likewise that governance was more ethical in north-west Europe during the La Tene period than during the medieval years under Christian control?
Eight answers:
Peter e Madame
2010-10-28 08:12:17 UTC
about the Roman Empire it is absolutely true. The Romans, although very superstitious, had a "contractual" attitude towards religion, a free view of human dimension. Especially during the Empire period, Rome was a multi-religious city, and even Roman nobles followed the religions brought from Asia, including the Christian doctrine.

Romans were very tolerant: persecutions were done lately and fore precise political reasons, not because of discrimination, you know it.

About the comparison with La Tene culture I think that things instead are a bit more complex.

During La Tene period life was very hard. In XII century southern France was the cradle of courtly literature, there had been the Romans; no, I don't think that culture and ethics could be worse than in La Tene period. The Gauls, the more civilized peoples of western barbarian culture, were quite violent, surely had a more evoluted form of law and justice, but they were partial and ruthless too. The fact that there was not Christianity doesn't make me think that minds were so opened and society so much freer.

If you read from a book written by a good historician about the situtation of Switzerland and western Germany during Caesar's come, you can understand that these cultures were quite cruel and primitive: how could be their ethics? So freer than the Christian one? Surely they were not so repressed and frustrated, but I guess that ethically were quite bad: there was slavery, human sacrifices, violences, continuous wars.

It's true that Christianity did many cruel things, but that was because of the times, not necessarely because of its ethics: I would also say that many violent ways used by the Christians to bring their doctrine were inherited by barbarian culture.

Furthermore I wanted to say that studies showed that actually the Christians were never killed in the Colosseum.
Epinions Reviewer.
2010-10-28 15:17:40 UTC
I agree with answers 3-5 on the whole.

But, to whitewash the La Tene period is nuts!

Granted, it was better than the Middle ages I agree with you

about that.

It is forgotten by scum bags like Terry Jones that the darling, humane,

human sacrificing Celts{Gauls} tried to exterminate the Romans from

390-225BC. The remains found at Melpum an Etruscan city show

the Gauls did commit genocide.{yes it is an overused term}



The recent finds as were shown on National Geographic & History International

showed at Ancre-sur-Marne-France & at Alston-England that human sacrifice

especially of women & children was actually more common than the classical

authors stated.



I only disagree with you on the Christians because without them Islam

may have triumphed & all of us could be living under Sharia law.
?
2010-10-28 07:41:04 UTC
Ah, King Rama- sorely missed. 'By Jupiter, off with their heads' that was a favourite of his. Very similar in style to Savonarola in that respect- If respect is the right word. Not a lot is known about the La Tene period apart from the fact that we definitely don't know where they lived. The Innuit people had the best record for tolerance, simply kicking haters of cod in the icehole.
?
2016-09-29 03:23:36 UTC
Hmmm. I did 2 many years in the USAF or maybe nevertheless it relatively is meant to be denomination impartial, Christianity became dominant particularly at applications the place a chaplain could do an invocation. (how are you able to invoke a god it relatively is acceptable to all??? by no skill figured that one out.) I additionally labored in Passenger facilities, and each Friday the Rabbi chaplain could are available in the morning and ask for a seat on the shipment one hundred thirty to Bosnia. each Friday he became grew to become down. He by no skill complained. I had to leap up and down and yell and scream to the powers above that it became quintessential to get him on that flight, so he'd be on the floor and able to serve the Jewish squaddies till now sunset, the Sabbath. ultimately they have been given it after approximately 12 requests from me, they figured it out and that they began to configure the easy with a seat for the Rabbi each Friday morning. I by no skill felt slighted or persecuted for my Buddhism or of their eyes loss of Christianity, so I easily have some hardship believing that it relatively is not any longer an remoted situation interior this squaddies business corporation or battalion.
Alexander_IV
2010-10-28 09:20:12 UTC
Actually, I think Christianity is given far too much credit for destroying the Roman Empire. I think Brutus and the anti-Caesar conspirators deserve much more credit.



Rome's enduring strength was that it was that no single individual created the Empire or even the majority of it. The Roman system, the Republic, created the Empire. Great conquerors are all nice for stories and movies but they eventually die and successors do not do as well. Alexander's empire did not survive his death. All of Henry II's gains were eventually lost under his sons Richard and John. Henry V's conquest were lost after his death.



People forget that Caesar, before his death, was not that isolated a phenomena in Rome. There had been men before him who rose to dominate the state. His uncle Marius and latter Sulla did so in the previous generation. Yet, for all their power and glory, could not create a monarchy or a semi-monarchy. When they died, the Republic continued with power diffused over the elites of Rome. Even Caesar himself, after defeating Pompey, knew better than to try to be more than a servant of the Republic.



What made Caesar different was his assassination at the height f height of his popularity. Brutus and the other conspirators feared that Caesar would do what Caesar knew not to try, become a monarch. They couldn't chance it so they killed him. It turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy.



Octavian (aka Augustus) and Mark Antony used the emotional and political chaos after the assassination to wipe out the Republican opposition. Even men unassociated with the assassination, like Cicero, were murdered because they had stature enough to keep Augustus and Antony from scrapping the old system.



In the end, by killing Caesar, the conspirators had brought into being what they tried to stop. It happens often in history. On case, that is somewhat similar, is the assassination of of Abraham Lincoln. Booth made the final decision to kill Lincoln because he feared that Lincoln would not just end slaver but would also force black equality.



In reality, Lincoln may not have gone quite that far. Lincoln just proposed a constitutional amendment to end slavery before his death. Anything more might have been politically problematic even in the north. After the war, northern whites wanted it abolished because they felt it was wrong, the cause of all the bloodshed, or just to punish their former enemies. However, the majority of whites still could not see blacks as equal citizens. Even Lincoln himself was unsure how to go about it. His only stated commitment was to give citizenship to the black veterans. Beyond that, he just wasn't sure how far to go. This is not to condemn him. He was still a better man than most, but he was a politician as well as a product of his times. However, when Booth murdered Lincoln, a martyr was created. In the ensuing political and emotional chaos, radical Republicans pushed through constitutional amendments that guaranteed citizenship and the right to vote for blacks. Booth helped brought about what he wanted to stop.



Back to Rome. Augustus didn't totally dismantle Republic all at once. He and his successors just corrupted, ignored, and intimidated until they did as they pleased. Rome became a somewhat mirror image of the current British system. Britain has defacto republic with a dejure monarchy. Rome became a defacto monarchy with a dejure republic.



That sealed Rome's fate. It's highs and lows were tied to single individuals who came and went. There were great emperors: Augustus, Claudius, Trajan, Hadrian, Antonius Pious, and Marcus Aurelius. There were destructive emperors: Caligula, Nero, and Commidus. There were any in between.



Where a Republic spread power among many that balanced things out, a monarchy made Rome dependent on one person. On top of that, that one position of power became the object of every ambitious politician and general. In the Republic, no one person had too much power so there was no one office worth starting a civil war for. In the Imperial system, civil wars happened right and left as individuals bid for the ultimate office.



That destroyed Rome. The constant civil wars decimated the infrastructure, the armies, and leadership talent until it was too weak to resist the Germanic invasions.



The Christian movement was inconsequential in the face of that.
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Alesha
2010-10-28 08:38:45 UTC
Actually to be perfectly frank about it Charles V, the Holy Roman Emperor, killed more Christians in his three year war in the Low Countries than the Roman pagans killed in three centuries.
crouchbear
2010-10-28 07:55:02 UTC
Yeah your right!It is true....


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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